The Buddhist Compassion Relief Tzu Chi Foundation started thirty years ago with a handful of followers. Today the organization has grown to nearly four million members. Undoubtedly Master Cheng Yen's ability to call people to get things done is the key factor for this achievement. The purifying influence of Tzu Chi's principle of "helping the poor and educating the rich" has won international respect, as well as the respect of all Chinese societies worldwide. On the eve of Tzu Chi's thirtieth anniversary, Master Cheng Yen gave an exclusive interview to Asia Weekly. Excerpts follow.

In the thirty years since Tzu Chi was founded, it has grown from nothing to the size and achievement of today. How do you feel about that?

It's very difficult to describe my feeling with words. If I have to use words, I can only use the word "gratitude." Gratitude is not appreciation. If you give me help, I say "Thank you" to show my appreciation. But this is not enough. Gratitude means that I'll remember forever in my heart what people have done for Tzu Chi. The achievement of Tzu Chi today is the result of the work and actions of every one of its members. As to the scale of Tzu Chi today, I can only say I feel "gratitude."

Tzu Chi's initial goal was to recruit five hundred members. Now it has about four million members. How do you feel about this?

Actually, Tzu Chi started with two or three persons working together. Later it increased to thirty. I always say every person is a kind person with a loving heart. Wherever there are people, there is space for love and that space is very large. What I do is reveal the love in people's hearts, open the doors in their hearts.

My original concept was not to recruit five hundred members. The Buddhist sutras say that Kuan Yin the Great Compassion Bodhisattva has one thousand eyes to see the suffering people in the world, and one thousand hands to help them. Five hundred members have one thousand hands and one thousand eyes. When they work together, they are like Kuan Yin the Great Compassion Bodhisattva in the human world. Right now there are so many Tzu Chi members engaged in the work of delivering people from suffering. Deep in my heart, I will s till feel "gratitude" to them forever.

Under your leadership, many entrepreneurs are following in your footsteps and doing charity work. Is that a result of your work in "helping the poor and educating the rich"?

Actually everyone is loving by nature. Love makes no distinction between rich and poor. However, some people, although very poor, are spiritually rich. Some have a great deal of material wealth, but are poor in their souls. They live in agony and anxiety. I want to open up the love in their hearts so that they will help others and enlighten themselves. All Tzu Chi members, from all walks of life, are doing their utmost to carry out Tzu Chi's four missions of charity, medicine, education and culture. Everything they do impresses me very much. They are able to do all this perhaps because they have been influenced by the spirit of kindness, compassion, joy and unselfish giving in Buddhism.

Other than in Taiwan, Tzu Chi also does charitable relief work in other countries. Because of this, some people here have criticized Tzu Chi for helping people in other countries when there are still so many poor people in Taiwan who have not yet been helped. What is your opinion toward these criticisms?

They don't understand us. Tzu Chi is a Buddhist organization. Buddhism teaches us that love should not discriminate. Tzu Chi's charity work has always been based on the principle of "respect life." As long as there are human beings, regardless of the country or place, if Tzu Chi people have eyes to see, ears to hear and feet to walk, they will go to help.This is the spirit and duty of religious people.

Tzu Chi's charity work started at different points in Taiwan and extended to other countries. If Tzu Chi members had not worked in Taiwan wholeheartedly, how could we have won joyful support from so many people? Tzu Chi has never stopped doing its charity work in Taiwan. On the contrary, it has gone even deeper. Mainland China is also a part of the world. People there are also human beings. We call them "mainland compatriots" and they call us "Taiwan compatriots." Since we call each other compatriots." Since we call each other compatriots, we should help each other even more.

Tzu Chi promotes international relief work because we want to promote the image of Taiwan's love in other countries. We want them to know that in the last few decades Taiwan has not only become materially rich, but that at the same time we also have love. Taiwan is a place where the density of love is very high. Of course, although we do international relief, we will never neglect our four missions of charity, medicine, education and culture in Taiwan.

The relationship between the two sides of the Taiwan Straits is the focus of all Chinese the world over. With your influence in Chinese society, what way do you hope the relationship will go?

This question is out of my range. However, I think we should start from human nature. I hope to build a bridge of love so that people on both sides can care for each other.

Tzu Chi is also engaged in bone marrow donation work, which is something that many organizations or even countries would like to do but do not dare to do. Would you please tell us your initial thoughts about this work? Also why do you want to establish a disabled children's rehabilitation center?

Bone marrow donation work needs a tremendous amount of money and technology. From one case, I learned why so many families of patients with blood disease did not dare to try bone marrow transplants. There were two major reasons: 1) the financial burdens were too high, and 2) it was very difficult to find a donor with a matching human leukocyte antigen type. Even if they could find a person with matching HLA, that person might not want to donate. Because of these two reasons, many patients with blood disease lost their lives. I thought it necessary to encourage marrow donation. If Tzu chi had not dared to do it, who else would do it? I also believed that if we would respond favorably.

People listened to what I said. Many had the wrong notion that marrow donation would hurt the donor's health. They trusted that I would not sacrifice one person's health to save another. Therefore, they had no more doubts and actively responded to the marrow donation drives. Many people were willing to give. They did not hold back. They really opened the doors of their hearts and offered themselves with joy.

You asked me why I want to establish a disabled children's rehabilitation center. Well, once I visited a disabled children's home and saw the desperate, agonized expressions of many children there. I felt very sad. Their parents told me that if one family had such a child, the whole family would suffer. I thought if we could give those children early treatment, their situation might be much better. If those parents and children could learn and grow together, their families would be much healthier. That was the main season why I wanted to establish a rehabilitation center.

Are you satisfied with the progress of the four missions? Have you ever thought of publicizing your concepts through the mass media?

It all depends on karma. It is not a matter of satisfaction or dissatisfaction. We have to grasp this very moment and do our best. As for the result or the future, it depends on karma. I always take the attitude of doing good deeds quietly. I do not blow my own trumpet. I don't care whether other people know what we do. I only care whether we really do it and whether we do it with sincerity, integrity, trust and honesty.

Right now the Tzu Chi organization is gigantic. Are you using business management principles to run such a huge enterprise?

Religion is religion. It is different from business. However, among its four missions, medicine and education need tight-knit organization to function well. They need specialists. Perhaps that has something to do with management. However, no matter how big the organization is or how we manage it, Tzu Chi will still focus on the four missions as its main work.

What is your expectation for Tzu Chi's future?

I never talk about the future or my expectations. I only want to grasp the present and do all I can.

Of the Ten Precepts of the Tzu Chen Faith Corps, the last one is "no political activities." What is your view regarding politics?

First of all, Tzu Chi is a religious organization. Its main mission should be the promotion of religious activities. Secondly, I think everyone should do his or her own job well. If you are not a politician, you should not get involved in politics. We may be concerned about politics but not involved. I don't talk about politics because I am an outsider. I only want to look after my own heart and do my own work well.

How is your health now? Some people deify you. What do you think about that?

Everyone goes through birth, age, illness and death. Illness doesn't matter much if we are mentally healthy. Life is limited. As long as we can talk and act, we should make use of our time to do good deeds. A man is a man and should never be deified. I didn't make Tzu Chi what it is today. Everything should be attributed to the hard work of all its members, commissioners, Tzu Chen Faith Corps members and honorable board members. They contributed their great love to make Tzu Chi what it is today. It is not right to attribute all the accomplishments to me.

On rainy days, I sit inside my house and think how great those people were who built the house, brick by brick and tile by tile. If not for them, I would get wet. So you see, many things and accomplishments are due to people working together. It's not the work of one person.

Is Master Yin Shun the one who has influenced you the most? How are you going to carry on and promote his beliefs?

It is true that Master Yin Shun has influenced me the most. However, I don't think I can follow in his footsteps because his knowledge is too great. He has made profound studies of Buddha's spirit. Of his limitless wisdom, I have only picked up a little to be used in my life. Nevertheless, even if Buddhist dharma is like an ocean, everyone can still practice it. That is why I advocate bringing Buddhist dharma to life and bringing the bodhisattvas into the human world.

In your own spiritual journey, what was the hardest?

It is difficult to describe in words. Anyway it is already past. Let bygones be bygones. I am very contented with everything I have now.

Tzu Chi's charity work has always been based on the principle of "respect life."